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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dear all again ~ <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks so much, Jessie, for your note!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I may be opening up a can of worms, but,
perhaps, one of the reasons that, at least, the study of race/class/gender and
the internet has not developed as it could have is because, about a decade ago,
when a few of us first started doing this, we graduate students and new
assistant professors were told in so many ways at our work and/or our methods
was “not sociological enough” because we were drawing on theories/methods/works
from many other disciplines to help us with our research.....Of course, that sort
of pushed some of us to do studies on more “traditional”
communities so as to legitimize our place in our fields.....I’m glad that
<i><span style='font-style:italic'>Gender and Society</span></i> seems really
open to publishing a special issue! I’m not so happy that it might take
5 years....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>But, the key is what Jesse, unfortunately,
recently experienced – the charge that this work is “not
sociological enough” and its corresponding argument against our methods
can get in the way of our developing this area. This is why I’d written
a piece re: methods and internet research (“E-scaping Boundaries:
Bridging Cyberspace and Diaspora Studies through Nethnography”) but, par
for course, it was published (because of the editor’s request) in an
anthology comprised of authors from different fields (David Silver’s _<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Critical Cyberculture Studies</span></i>_) which
doesn’t help counter the “not sociological enough” charge...*sigh*
round and round this goes......<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And then there’s the other part of
this equation --- the constant struggle of sociologists of race, class, gender
and/or its intersections to prove that our methods are sound and our work is
sociological enough (i.e., not “mere experience”).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m glad you put this out on the
table, Jesse and all! I’m really happy that we’re, finally,
discussing how we can buttress this area of research and, more importantly,
articulating – and, hopefully, addressing - the reasons why it has been
difficult to do so....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Take good care everyone - and, Jesse,
really – apologies! That initial email was not directed at you, but at
the ghosts of Christmases past ;o)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Emily<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*<br>
"We are better than we think<br>
And not yet quite what we want to be<br>
We are alive to imagination<br>
And open to possibility<br>
We will continue<br>
To invent the future" - Nikki Giovanni, "We are Virginia Tech,"
April 17, 2007</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>"We were given everything we need to
know<br>
at birth...<br>
We just need to find the courage to grab it<br>
and rise up into this world<br>
expanded" - Carlos Andrés Gómez, "tipping point" from <em><i><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>Finding the Music</span></font></i></em>
(2006)</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>"True compassion is more than
throwing a coin to a beggar. It demands of<br>
our humanity that if we live in a society that produces beggars, we are<br>
morally commanded to restructure that society." - Dr. Martin Luther<br>
King, Jr.</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Emily Noelle Ignacio<br>
Associate Professor of Sociology, Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences<br>
Box 358436, 1900 Commerce Street<br>
Tacoma, WA 98402<br>
VM: 253/ 692-4542; Fax: 253/ 692-5718</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Jessie Daniels
[mailto:jessiedanielsnyc@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 05, 2009
5:35 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Harvey Rich; Emily Noelle
Ignacio<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> citasa@list.citasa.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [CITASA] Take
two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand up?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Harvey, Emily, and
CITASA folks ~ <br>
<br>
Harvey - I'm just telling you what Pat Collins (ASA president) and Kareem (of
ASA) told me about organizing the session. Perhaps the rules are slightly
different for an invited/ thematic panel? I'm not sure. The other
stipulation, as I think you note, is that they couldn't be on the program more
than twice. So, some of the people doing this sort of work were
already on the program in other invited panels. <br>
<br>
And, Emily - no apology necessary, if anything apologies are all mine. I
didn't mean to suggest that no sociologists were doing work on
race/gender/class and the Internet, there are as you rightly point out.
Lori Kendall, has been a pioneer in this area, Emily's work is exemplary,
and there are new, young scholars such as Tracy Kennedy and Felicia Su Wong,
who are also doing really interesting work. <br>
<br>
Let me be clear about what I meant in my original post to the list agreeing
with Tracy about the disconnect between sociology and technology. My
'subfield,' if you will, within sociology is the study of race/gender/class and
I started using technology in the classroom in about the mid-1990s, so for me
the connections between these two seemed obvious. And, when Ebo's
1998 book "Cybertopia or Cyberghetto: Race, Class and Gender on the
Internet," came out, I was optimistic that others saw this connection too
and that a new field was emerging. Now, ten years later, there are
very few (a handful really) of sociologists interested in race/class/gender
that are equally interested in anything
Internet-related. And, most of the
Internet-related literature I read is not so much focused on these
intersections (again, a few exceptions but not the field as a whole -
especially with regard to race). <br>
<br>
I see this disconnect between sociology and Internet-studies especially in my
involvement with the journal <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Gender &
Society</span></i> (not sponsored by ASA, but by Sociologists for Women in
Society), a well-regarded sociology journal with an impact factor close to that
of <i><span style='font-style:italic'>New Media & Society</span></i>).
I'm on the Ed Board and a frequent reviewer. I've approached Dana
Britton, the current editor, several times about putting together a special
issue on race/class/gender and the Internet, and she tells me again and again
that there just aren't enough submissions to the journal on this issue to
warrant a special issue, or even a similary themed regular issue of the
journal. Her estimate: "maybe in 5 years" there will be enough
work in the area to warrant a special issue. I ended up editing a
special issue of the journal recently around Maggie Andersen's work on
race/gender/class, but none of the contributors - all leaders in the field
across a range of ages and stages of career (and invited by Britton, not me) -
mentioned the Internet as a significant development in the field in the last 20
years. And, indeed, when I submitted my own work to the
journal (about cyberfeminism), they had trouble even finding reviewers, and
then it got rejected as not 'sociological enough.' I re-submitted the piece to
a women's studies journal and it got accepted with very minor revisions
(coming out this year in a special issue on technology in <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Women's Studies Quarterly</span></i>).
Again, Lori Kendall's work is the exception here and has appeared in <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Gender & Society,</span></i> but there's only a
handful of articles that have appeared there about gender and the
Internet. (TIP for scholars in that subfield and on this
list: submit your work there and it's likely to get a good review from
me! )<br>
<br>
So, all that is a long way round to say that what seemed to me to be an obvious
connection in 1998 between one particular subfield in sociology
(race/class/gender) and Internet studies, has not developed in the way that I
assumed it would 10 years ago. Perhaps it's different in other
subfields. <br>
<br>
There are, in my opinion, reasons to be hopeful that this will change, is
changing (like the fact that ASA is organizing several special sessions on
Internet-related research), but I still see a disconnect to me between
sociology and Internet studies. <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
~ Jessie<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Harvey Rich <<a
href="mailto:vcsoc001@csun.edu">vcsoc001@csun.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p class=MsoNormal><tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I'm surprised that you were restricted to only members for a
panel. Did you actually ask someone at the ASA, or just assume it?
Here's the policy taken from the pages of the ASA website (admittedly it took
some doing to find): </span></font></tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
</span></font><b><font size=2 color="#333333" face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333;font-weight:bold'>The
announced Regular Session topics listed in the Call for Papers are open to
submission of full papers from members of the Association <u>and other
interested individuals. </u></span></font></b><font size=2 color="#333333"
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'><br>
<br>
Admittedly, it is the policy of other sociology associations of which I am
experienced to require one to join the association if you are presenting a
paper. However, the two associations I am most familiar with (PSA and
CSA) exempt <u>panel organizers</u> from this requirement. Thus, one can
get a person from the government or a local charitable organization or another
discipline, without requiring them to join the organization.<br>
<br>
I can't find anywhere on the website whether or not one must join the ASA if on
the program, but I suspect there is no one size fits all rule. In fact, I
found a piece, for a CITASA pre-conference and grad student conference in July
31, 2008, which says that full papers submitted to the CITASA pre-conference do
not count against the limit on the number of papers that an author can present
at the regular ASA conference. This would seem to indicate an
inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness.<br>
<br>
I would email the ASA on this and perhaps you can expand your contributors next
time you do this at the ASA.<br>
<br>
Harvey<br>
<br>
</span></font><br>
Jessie Daniels wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Just seconding Tracy's
comment about the 'disconnect' within sociology around studying Internet
technology, but I remain hopeful that this may change. <br>
<br>
I was recently asked by Patricia Hill Collins, incoming ASA president, to
organize a thematic session for the 2009 meetings about race, gender and the
'new politics of community' on the Internet. I could pretty easily
think of lots of scholars doing interesting work in these areas, but in order
to be included on the panel the people needed to be current ASA members and
that requirement narrowed the pool of rather dramatically. I ended
up including 2 current ASA members, 1 person from outside the field (political
science) and 1 person from outside the U.S. (UK) - (and, offered to sponsor the
membership of the 2 non-ASA members). <br>
<br>
In part, I think this disconnect reflects the fact that the field is
international and interdisciplinary - both good things in my view.
And yet, there's still this 'lag' in terms of sociology's participation in this
area of study. As Paul DiMaggio and colleagues pointed out in their
2001 Annual Review of Sociology article, <i><span style='font-style:italic'>"sociologists
have been slow to take up the challenge of studying the Internet." </span></i>
It was true in 2001 and, from my view, it continues to be true.
Still, I remain hopeful it's changing. <br>
<br>
<br>
~ Jessie <br>
<br>
-- <br>
<a href="http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com" target="_blank">http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.racismreview.com" target="_blank">http://www.racismreview.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.homelessyouthservices.org" target="_blank">http://www.homelessyouthservices.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, T. Kennedy <<a
href="mailto:tkennedy@netwomen.ca" target="_blank">tkennedy@netwomen.ca</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>What about creating a wiki for this discussion? would be interesting to<br>
create a knowledge base for all these interesting tid-bits.<br>
<br>
I find the discussion interesting, useful & timely. As a PhD candidate in<br>
Sociology, I've been wondering about my place in the discipline; I teach all<br>
of my - cyberculture, digital culture, virtual culture, gaming, info/network<br>
society etc etc - in communications, popular culture, film or media studies<br>
depts (for the last 7 years). I have yet to find a 'home' in sociology for<br>
my research or teaching interests. The courses I have taught in socio - tech<br>
& society (co-taught with Barry Wellman) and women & IT (mostly work<br>
related) and have a different slant/focus than my other courses.<br>
This is not to say that I don't use soci theories in these<br>
communications/media classes - I certainly do (and there is overlap) - so I<br>
wonder why sociology (and many depts across the US & Canada) seem so
distant<br>
to me (and certainly don't call out to me in job postings)....I've stopped<br>
going to soci conferences (except for citasa & depending on distance &<br>
funding) and have looked to other disciplines when thinking about a future<br>
tenure position.<br>
Is it just me - or do others feel this same disconnect with sociology?<br>
Tracy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..<br>
|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..<br>
<br>
Tracy L. M. Kennedy<br>
PhD Candidate<br>
Dept of Sociology<br>
University of Toronto<br>
<br>
Course Instructor<br>
Dept of Communications, Popular Culture & Film Brock University<br>
<br>
Research Coordinator<br>
NetLab<br>
University of Toronto<br>
<br>
Second Life: Professor Tracy<br>
<br>
..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..<br>
|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org" target="_blank">citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org" target="_blank">citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Andrea Tapia<br>
Sent: February 3, 2009 8:47 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il" target="_blank">gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il</a>;
<a href="mailto:citasa@list.citasa.org" target="_blank">citasa@list.citasa.org</a><br>
Subject: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand up?<br>
<br>
Wow. Double wow.<br>
<br>
These questions of mine have generated a lot of discussion yesterday and<br>
today, both on and off the list.<br>
<br>
Thank you! This has spurred me on to think in new ways about what we do and<br>
find new ways to translate it to others!<br>
<br>
I think the discussions have been very interesting. So much so, that I think<br>
I'm going to anonymize and aggregate them for everyone to read. I think more<br>
than myself might benefit from the responses.<br>
<br>
One line of questions keep popping up.<br>
<br>
Why did I exclude this or that? Why did I draw artificial boundaries between<br>
sociology of technology and other things? Wouldn't if be better if
"X" were<br>
included?<br>
<br>
<br>
So, I pose a few questions back to the list...<br>
<br>
1. Is the sociology of technology an umbrella term? discipline? That
others<br>
fit inside? If so, what fits inside?<br>
<br>
2. If the sociology of technology is just sociology applied to technical<br>
things--then does the sociology of technology offer anything that overall<br>
sociology doesn't in terms of theories/methods/etc.?<br>
<br>
3. One author suggested that the sociology of technology exists only in
the<br>
overlap of other things. I think this is an intriguing idea. Do you think it<br>
hold water?<br>
<br>
4. Imagine that you found yourself on a six person team. The other
members<br>
of the team were an HCI (human-computer interaction) scholar, a scholar of<br>
communications, an STS (science and technology studies) scholar, a<br>
sociologist of science/knowledge, and a philosopher of technology. After a<br>
few beers and some good pizza they all look at you and ask you what you add<br>
to the team that they don't already have.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CITASA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CITASA@list.citasa.org" target="_blank">CITASA@list.citasa.org</a><br>
<a href="http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org"
target="_blank">http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CITASA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CITASA@list.citasa.org" target="_blank">CITASA@list.citasa.org</a><br>
<a href="http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org"
target="_blank">http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<pre style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
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<div><pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>CITASA mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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